User talk:Harakoni

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SyntaxTerror (talkcontribs)

Hello Harakoni

I would like to use more the Template:Quote, but if it can be good to have a large font size at the top of pages, it is not desirable in the middle of articles, like on Gastro-analyzer#Notes.

In many places, the "indent" method is used (like on Events#Ambrosia sprout) and it is really not the thing to do, as it is meant for code and words are often cut in the middle at the end of the line. A smaller sized quotation template would be useful in cases like this.

I don't know why it is so big on Rimworldwiki compared to Wikipedia, there is maybe different CSS rules, but I don't know much about it.

By the way, I tried to copy the Wikipedia template blockquote, but I couldn't make better than Rimworldwiki's Template:Quote, so I guess that Template:Blockquote, Template:Blockquote/doc and Template:Blockquote/styles.css can be deleted (sorry for that mess...).

I think that Template:Quote can be modified a little so a font size parameter be added.

It quess that adding style="font-size:{{{size|}}}"; to the <blockquote> tag would do the trick, but I'm not sure because this template is using unamed parameters, so maybe it could be parameter 4? (I suck when it comes to this HTML part of wikicode, so I don't know how to write the code for this).

The template would have the same behaviour, so no changes would have to be made where it is already used, but adding size=14px would make quotes the same size as the rest of the article's text.

Also, it would be good to add &nbsp: after the em dash ("—", in front of the author's name).

Harakoni (talkcontribs)

Alright so the template was already set up to also take named parameters, but just undocumented. I've added a size option both unnamed and named and amended the documentation to reflect the current state of it. I also blatantly stole your documentation formatting because it looked so much better than what was currently there. (We should get around to standardizing template documentation but its way down the list)

I absolutely agree that the indent method is not ideal, its just a work around that should be discarded now that Quote is more flexible. Have a play around with the current version and sizes and see what you think works best. Let me know if there's any formatting options or changes you think may be necessary. Also let me know if the current parameter names are fine, its a simple change to add new alternatives/change existing ones. Author is likely more intuitive than "sign" and "cite" but that's what was already there.

I'll leave Blockquote and its associated pages up for now, just in case there is any content/ideas that should be taken from it, or experimentation to be done and then delete them once after you're happy.

SyntaxTerror (talkcontribs)

Nice job.

But I'm unsure of the "sign" parameter name: I think it is better to stay as close as possible to Wikipedia's "author", so contributors that are also on Wikipedia won't be surprised, and people that don't won't see the difference anyway.

Giving the alternate names of the parameters isn't helpful too, it's always better to keep things simple ("idiotproof" ;p ).

On reflexion, maybe it would be better to make a "normal" size for quotes (i.e. not having to specify a smaller size), as in most cases it should be the right size to use in the middle of articles, and allow a bigger size for quotes at the top of pages ?

14 px looks to be fine, it would be the same size as in the "indent" trick (I edited Events#Ambrosia sprout like this). Tell me what you think ?

There is only a handful of places where the template is used at the moment, so the changes won't be too long to make.

By the way, do you know if a "database dump" of this wiki exists? It would be handy for tasks like this. On the other hand, there are only 1297 pages in the "main"), so doing them all in semi-automatic edition with AWB isn't that hard.

Harakoni (talkcontribs)

Tbph I kept the current substitutions options because I didn't want to bother redoing it, testing it, and then changing over the existing implementation, but if you feel it'll transfer easier, I'll do it next time I'm at a PC and free to edit.

Wrt. normal size, as in set it to size 14 by default (i.e. when no size parameter is entered) and use the size parameter for larger page toppers? Yeah thats doable. I can do that at the same time as the above. I think I might also implement a "Large" and "small" default size so that we don't end up with a bunch of little variations and it can be mass updated with one edit. SO you can say size=large or size=small or size=16 if you want to manually set it. I'll set small to 14 and large to whatever it is currently, unless you have some other opinions on it.

The Event page looks great. Much better than what it was. This was a good idea. My only addition would be having the source say something like "event card description" or something just to more plainly express that its a straight copy and paste from the notification.

As for a database dump, you're probably best asking our wonderful administrator User:Zesty on that front, either on the wiki or on the Wiki's discord. The second is probably more likely to get a response though it'll still probably take a day or two. I mostly just use the WhatLinksHere when checking stuff like that. Not the most efficient but it works fine for small jobs like this.

SyntaxTerror (talkcontribs)

14 px and "large" seem fine to me, changes can be made after by only modifying the template anyway.

Maybe the best is to have no parameter for 14 px, and a large= parameter that makes the bigger size if it is filled with anything (e.g. large=yes), with a size= parameter on the side, that is not supposed to be used in the Main.

I made tests and the "standard" size seems to be 17.5 px (?!), it is probably handled by CSS settings, but I don't know where to look nor how to fiddle with this anyway.

Concerning the dump, it doesn't seem to be possible.

Harakoni (talkcontribs)

Ok so large parameter is implement as you describe. Default size is now 14px. Size parameter is maintained but noted as preferred to not be used. Existing examples on pages have been updated

SyntaxTerror (talkcontribs)

It looks great.

I was going to edit the transclusions of the template, but I see that you've already done it. Good job!

I'll try to find some time to implement this template in the places where it should be used.

SyntaxTerror (talkcontribs)

I noticed problems with the template:

1. The external links don't show if the parameter isn't specified:

{{quote|Gastro-analyzer is an implant INTO the nose, while aesthetic nose REPLACES the nose. You can't install a gastro analyzer into a aesthetic nose; it's one or the other.|Tynan Sylvester|"[https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=51123.msg474313#msg474313 Cannot replace destroyed gastro-analyzer]" on ''Ludeon forums''.</ref>}}

produces:

Gastro-analyzer is an implant INTO the nose, while aesthetic nose REPLACES the nose. You can't install a gastro analyzer into a aesthetic nose; it's one or the other.

— Tynan Sylvester
{{quote|Gastro-analyzer is an implant INTO the nose, while aesthetic nose REPLACES the nose. You can't install a gastro analyzer into a aesthetic nose; it's one or the other.|Tynan Sylvester|source="[https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=51123.msg474313#msg474313 Cannot replace destroyed gastro-analyzer]" on ''Ludeon forums''.</ref>}}

produces:

Gastro-analyzer is an implant INTO the nose, while aesthetic nose REPLACES the nose. You can't install a gastro analyzer into a aesthetic nose; it's one or the other.

— Tynan Sylvester,  "Cannot replace destroyed gastro-analyzer" on Ludeon forums.</ref>

2. I see a problem on Character Types#Mechanoids but don't know how to solve it. I've never encountered the syntax " {{: " before, it seems to call a page as a template, but here only the top "{{quote}}" template is displayed. A solution would be to copy the template from Mechanoid to Character Types#Mechanoids and remove the "large" parameter, but I don't know what result was intended in the first place.

Can you have a look at these?

Harakoni (talkcontribs)

{{: is how you call a page in the main namespace for transclusion as if it were a template. It looks like Mechanoids has it set to onlyinclude the quote for some reason and so thats all of the page that gets transcluded. Likely it at one point included more from the page, and later edits have damaged the intended transcluded section. I'll take a look at what it used to include, but honestly, we can probably get rid of the transclusion and change it up for a short summary anyway.

I'll get back to you on the Template:Quote issue. Ty for the reports.

Harakoni (talkcontribs)

Right, the issue with the quote paramter is the = sign in the link. Without specifying the parameter it assumes you're trying to set a parameter called "[https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic" to a value of "51123.msg474313#msg474313 Cannot replace destroyed gastro-analyzer]" on Ludeon forums.</ref>"

Obviously, there is no parameter called that anywhere in the template, and because its trying to set a parameter its obviously not a unnamed parameter either, so it ignores it.

Serves me right for not sanitizing my inputs. Not sure how to fix it as yet, will look into it.

Harakoni (talkcontribs)

Hahaha actually no, apparently that quote is all thats ever been transcluded. I have no idea why such a pointless transclusion was made. Removing it now.

Also looks like there is no way to sanitize the input without changing what the user puts in in the first place, its a problem intrinsic to the wiki format. So we might as well just say "only use = signs when naming a parameter"

Sorry for the reply spam.

SyntaxTerror (talkcontribs)

"the = sign in the link"

Damn, I forgot to check that... XP

I don't think that a fix is possible with templates (it has to be done with lua modules I guess).

A solution would be to replace the "=" by &#61;, or to create a template similar to template:!!, but that would be overkill as one just need to use the parameter...

Harakoni (talkcontribs)

>but that would be overkill as one just need to use the parameter

Agreed, especially given it already requires the editors to change their behavior. Might as well change the behavior to the simpler one.

Also just to borrow this thread, I'd guess you're making mass edits with an external tool? You've taken out the spaces in a lot of headings while fixing the capitalization. e.g. "Version History" -> "Versionhistory". nbd and I'm fixing them now, but just something to check next time.

SyntaxTerror (talkcontribs)

oh $#!7.... I try to always double check.

Leave it to me, I'm correcting this right now

Harakoni (talkcontribs)

Seriously don't stress. Mistakes happen.

That said, you also seem to have removed the spaces before several links in this edit, I'm not sure if that happened anywhere else or if its just that page. Might be worth checking jic. Also you lower cased "DLC" there, so if you are doing it automatically, an exception for DPS, DLC, EMP and a few other terms might be in order.

Lastly it looks like you're lower case process broke on ancient mech drop beacon, possibly because the link in question was in a gallery.

SyntaxTerror (talkcontribs)

I'll check all my recent edits, leave it to me for now.

SyntaxTerror (talkcontribs)

It should be good now, thanks for correcting my mess and sorry again for this...

Harakoni (talkcontribs)

Infobox descriptions should be as they appear in game, even if they are wrong/grammatically non-standard/poorly structured etc. If there's an actual error in the source itself, like a spelling mistake, tag it with [sic] but otherwise leave it as is in game.

Similarly, for technical reasons, please leave the capitalization on the Stuff Tags. Usage of them generally can automatically account for some being lower case and some upper, but its best to allow it to be fault tolerant.

This isn't a reprimand or anything. Just a request.

SyntaxTerror (talkcontribs)

Understood.

I am currently working on a regex that will match all words with a faulty capitalisation.

In fact, at the moment I am trying to make it able not to match words inside multiline templates (so it will include infoboxes).

Errors in some animals' guard/attack/rescue/haul

11
Summary by Harakoni

Animals should now be up to date

SyntaxTerror (talkcontribs)

Hello Harakoni

On the articles of some animals, like the donkey or the horse, it is stated that they cannot guard, attack, rescue or haul, while in fact they can.

This has an impact on other pages, such as the list of animals.

I guess that the Property:Can_Train_Guard, etc. need to be modified, but I haven't managed to do so.

Is it possible for anyone to do this, and if so, how?

Harakoni (talkcontribs)

Yup anyone can update both the pages and the template used to set those variables. On the donkey page in the infobox main template call there will be a line that looks like:

|trainable = none

It can be set to none for none, simple for Can Train Guard and nothing else, intermediate for Can Train Guard and Can Train Attack, and advanced for everything except where its limited by bodysize

It you look in Template:Infobox main and search for Trainable Intelligence it should take you straight to where those relationships are defined.

SyntaxTerror (talkcontribs)

I spawned all the animals in dev mode, checked in Animals tab, and edited the articles that weren't corresponding to what I saw, then I purged the list of animals (I don't know if there are other pages to purge).

Here's my list of what I found, please double-check if possible (I modified the names with a hyphen at the begining of the line):

-alpaca		***
-bison		**
-boomalope	***
-boomrat	***
-capybara	***
-cassowary	***
-cobra		***
-deer		***
-donkey		*****
-horse		*****
-pig		*****
-tortoise	***
-w.boar		***
-warg		*****
a.beaver	***
a.wolf		*****
artic fox	*** *
caribou		***
cat		*
chicken		*
chinchilla	*
cougar	 	 *****
cow		*
donkey		*****
dromad		**
duck		*
eleph		*****
elk		***
emu		***
fennec		*** *
gazelle		***
goat		*
goose		*
grizzly		*****
guinea		*
hare		*
husky		*****
ibex		***
iguana		*
labrador	*****
lynx		***
m.scarab	***
m.sloth		*****
m.spider	*****
monkey		***
muffalo		**
ostrich		***
p.bear		*****
panther		*****
raccoon		***
rat		*
red fox		*** *
rhino		***
s.hare		*
sheep		*
speloped	*****
squirrel	*
t.wolf		*****
thrumbo		*****
turkey		*
yak		*
yorksh		***
Harakoni (talkcontribs)

Are you sure you're on the current version? It looks to me that Alpacas have Trainability None?

unknown.png

SyntaxTerror (talkcontribs)

Oh $#!7...

I remember coming back to an older version because I didn't like some parts of newer ones, and I stayed like this since.

I am up to date now (v1.3.3087) and I saw the difference.

There are still many errors, wouldn't it be easier to centralise this data on a subpage of the template, so each individual article wouldn't have to be modified if important changes like these are made in the future versions? I guess that this wiki is using lua for things like this, so my knowledge in this area isn't good enough to help you with that.

Luckily I could use AutoWikiBrowser (it seems that anyone is even allowed to use auto bot mode), so I corrected my mistakes, and also the other ones.

Here's the pages I edited (with a + in front of the line, first set of asterisks is after my first eroneous edits, second is v1.3.3087):

+artic f	*** *		***
+fennec		*** *		***
+red fox	*** *		***
+warg		*****		***
+alphabeaver	***		*
+alpaca		***		*
+bison		**		*
+boomalope	***		*
+boomrat	***		*
+capybara	***		*
+caribou	***		*
+cassowary	***		*	
+cobra		***		*
+deer		***		*
+donkey		*****		*
+dromadery	**		*
+elk		***		*
+emu		***		*
+gazelle	***		*
+horse		*****		*
+ibex		***		*
+lynx		***		*
+muffalo	**		*
+ostrich	***		*
+pig		*****		*
+raccoon	***		*
+tortoise	***		*
+wildboar	***		*

arctic wolf	*****		*****
cat		*		*
chicken		*		*
chinchilla	*		*
cougar	  	*****		*****
cow		*		*
duck		*		*
elephant	*****		*****
goat		*		*
goose		*		*
grizzly		*****		*****
guinea		*		*
hare		*		*
husky		*****		*****
iguana		*		*
labrador	*****		*****
megascarab	***		***
megasloth	*****		*****
megaspider	*****		*****
monkey		***		***
polar bear	*****		*****
panther		*****		*****
rat		*		*
rhinoceros	***		***
snow hare	*		*
sheep		*		*
spelopede	*****		*****
squirrel	*		*
timber wolf	*****		*****
thrumbo		*****		*****
turkey		*		*
yak		*		*
yorkshire	***		***

I think it is all fine now (I hope ;p ).

Kingerman88 (talkcontribs)

Hello! Not sure if the AutoWikiBrowser actually pushed any updates since I don't see anything in the reversion history and after looking at the pages they seems to not have been reverted. I can probably just revert the pages manually if anything since I'll be working on updating all of the stats (since a lot has changed for 1.3)

(little bit off topic) "I guess that this wiki is using lua for things like this, so my knowledge in this area isn't good enough to help you with that." 👀 really? I actually know a fair bit of lua so I might do some research into that!

SyntaxTerror (talkcontribs)
Kingerman88 (talkcontribs)

Ah, whoops, I do see those changes. However, actually those animals should have trainability of none (instead of simple). (as the screenshot Harakoni posted earlier) those animals can be tamed but can't be trained. Trainability simple means that the animals can be trained to guard (which as of 1.3 I'm not sure if any animals can only be trained to guard)

SyntaxTerror (talkcontribs)

@Kingerman88: oh, I clearly messed it up again, I put "simple" instead of "none" on the pages I edited...

I'm fixing that right now, thanks.

Kingerman88 (talkcontribs)

All good!

SyntaxTerror (talkcontribs)

It should be fine now, sorry for the trouble.

DarkVector skin and templates/tables

1
Deadgye (talkcontribs)

Many table templates, such as STDT, result in tables that are not easily readable on the DarkVector skin. You often have to highlight the table to be able to read it at all. For the most part, this is because things like background color are explicitly set while text color is not.

Since the DarkVector skin is installed on the site, a mod should be able to edit the css to create overrides for tables and/or templates. As a bandaid fix, I believe simply inverting the background color should be enough to make them contrast with the default skin text colors. The trick should be how to only invert table's background colors when they've been explicitly specified?

SyntaxTerror (talkcontribs)

Hello Harakoni.

Thanks for making changes so I can edit my own user page.

Concerning my talk page, is it possible to make it in "normal" wikicode ? because I sincerely dislike Flow...

Also, are notifications enabled on this wiki? Is there is a template similar to Wikipedia's {{ping}}?

Harakoni (talkcontribs)

Wrt to the talk page, not afaik, though its not something I've looked into. There are still some talk pages that still use normal wikicode, but only pages that have existed for a long time. Likely something grandfathered in.

As for notifications, pretty sure that notifications for whenever your user page is linked to are on by default, though they can be toggled on and off according to your preference as well. I'll test it and you can see if you get a notification.

ItsNotReallyEditing (talkcontribs)

Looks like Jakek created another alt. He is asking me to compete in editing.

Harakoni (talkcontribs)

Dealt with. I could have overlooked him using alts if he didn't do the exact same things that got him banned last time. Ty for bringing it to my attention.

ItsNotReallyEditing (talkcontribs)

Sorry to bother you, but I was looking through the recent changes log to see if there was something I could edit, when I saw the user Regularity create an interesting pastebin in their user page containing some mod recommendations with some slightly NSFW language (sections 1007a and 1008). Does the wiki have any rules?

Harakoni (talkcontribs)

Regularity is using it to replace the mod list pages that the wiki has tried and failed to maintain in the past. Users do have fairly free rein in their user spaces, though obviously common sense applies. We can't host totally inappropriate language/content etc. because ultimately this is Ludeon's wiki.

Mentioning RJW as an existing mod is fine afaic, being explicit about whats in it might not be depending on how detailed it gets. I'd prefer if it drew less explicit attention to the more controversial aspects of the mod, but its also probably not worth stepping in with the mod-hammer as it currently stands. If you want, feel free to politely address it with them on their talk page.

Harakoni (talkcontribs)

Actually I did make it slightly less explicit, just to avoid getting the wiki in trouble. If they have an issue with it, we can talk about it, but I'd rather not risk it.

https://rimworldwiki.com/wiki/Thoughts/Situation_Needs

6
Crasheripot (talkcontribs)

Hi, Harakoni

Why do you disagree that left-aligning the table improves readability?

See e.g. https://practicaltypography.com/centered-text.html

Thanks for directing me to the proper place to have this conversation if this isn't it. Seems I didn't have the rights to add a Discussion to the article itself. Also, I don't know whether I'll be notified of updates to this discussion. :)

Jimyoda (talkcontribs)

Usually left-aligned looks much better than center-aligned, but in this case not necessarily. Here, left-aligned looks proper but somewhat crowded and much of the white space that would make the page look clean is lost to one side. The center-aligned is a but funky but I think the white space makes it look more inviting and improves readability.

Also, as already mentioned, if changing one of the thoughts table, they all ought to be changed. For something like this where one change actually obligates making the change in multiple places, I would create a sandbox page under my user page, copy the table, and do all the changes and experimentation I want, settle on what looks best, and maybe get some input from others.

All that said, you could still be right, but it's hard to tell when it doesn't have the the coloration and row dividers.


To get notifications for this topic, click the star at the upper right on this page.

Harakoni (talkcontribs)

Jim has covered my opinion pretty well, but that said, but really my main problem is whatever it the standard is, it needs to match on ALL the thoughts tables and i didn't think it was worth changing all of them to that standard.

But if you think it looks cleaner, while I disagree a little, I'm not opposed to you implementing a standard change. My first of two edits has a version that preserves the color/dividers/etc if you want to have a go at implementing it.

Also yeah you won't have page creation rights until 10 page edits and the bot gets around to autoconfirming you. Its clunky but unfortunately hiw it works. Posting here was fine, thats what this page is for. Please always feel free to come with questions, or join us on the discord server.

Jimyoda (talkcontribs)

If you don't have page creation rights yet then feel free to experiment using the Sandbox.

Cronusgradient (talkcontribs)

Hi. I'm unable to edit pages or add new topics to them. I created this account a couple minutes ago to change bionic stomach's mass from 99999kg to 2.00kg, but am unable to do so. I am also unable to add new topics to your page, so I am forced to respond to this topic which is irrelevant to the issue I saw, apologies. Seeing as you were the last person to edit the bionic stomach page, I thought I'd ask you here. That's all, thank you.

This post was hidden by ItsNotReallyEditing (history)
Summary by Harakoni

Market Value template not rounding properly. Updated code to fix.

Dakon (talkcontribs)

I don't know if you are the right person to contact but I noticed an issue with the rounding of the market values in the info box on the top right of pages about weapons. The market values are rounded to the nearest ten, which is incorrect.

Example: I recently corrected the market value of the EMP launcher to 505 but it is rounded up to 510 in the info box.

As described on the page about market value, "items with a market value of above 200 will have their market value rounded to be divisible by 5, with a remainder of 2.5 being rounded down."

The market values on the page https://rimworldwiki.com/wiki/Weapons are rounded correctly, which creates an inconsistency.

It would be great if you could let someone know that has the permissions to fix this.

Harakoni (talkcontribs)

Yup, I'm the right person, or one of them at least. There definitely is an issue in the rounding calcs somewhere. I'll take a look and see if I can get it sorted.

But also always feel free to investigate and experiment if you want to. The issue is very likely in Template: infobox main or Template: Market Value both of which you should have permission to edit (also templates used on a page are listed at the bottom when you edit). If you're editing a template, just check a few pages its used on and make sure that you didn't break anything. If you did, then revert. No harm, no foul.

Harakoni (talkcontribs)

Alright, it appears to be working as intended now. There was an issue with the implementation of the Template:Market Value. I've done some rough testing and it seems to now match the method listed on Market Value. If you find any more problems with the template, or anywhere you think its being used to round values, let me know.

Dakon (talkcontribs)

Seems to work perfectly now. Thanks.

Summary by Harakoni

Accepted Moderator Role.

Zesty (talkcontribs)

Hi Harakoni,

If you are interested, I could use an additional wiki moderator. I see you have been making great contributions to the wiki since March, and I think you'd be a good fit for the mod team.

Please let me know if you're interested.

Harakoni (talkcontribs)

What would the responsibilities be? Part of why I have been so active lately is free time due to Corona slowing everything down. I'll eventually have to scale back at least somewhat and don't want to commit if I can't deliver. That said, I am interested in helping out more if I can.

Zesty (talkcontribs)

Responsibilities are mostly:

  • Cleaning up spam
  • Helping users delete pages that aren't needed anymore
  • Helping users with wiki questions

It's a pretty straight forward job, and you seem like a good fit. We could use the help given the elevated level of spam recently. It's no big deal if you change your mind later -- you'd always be welcome back to the mod team whenever you find that you do have some time.

Harakoni (talkcontribs)

Then absolutely. I'd be glad to help.

Zesty (talkcontribs)

I've bumped up your usergroup to mod.

If you use Discord, please send me your Discord User#ID and I'll invite you to the wiki Discord.

PigeonGuru (talkcontribs)

Would you like to start a sandbox within your userspace?

Harakoni (talkcontribs)

Actually yes, thats a great idea. Its probably better than making a mess of my user page Harakoni (talk) 04:07, 19 August 2020 (UTC)

PigeonGuru (talkcontribs)
Harakoni (talkcontribs)

Thanks

Creating page so new users can post if neccesary

1
Harakoni (talkcontribs)

New users can't create talk pages so

There are no older topics