User talk:Gottoni

Jump to: navigation, search

About this board

Not editable

Yoshida Keiji (talkcontribs)

You may now proceed to formally suggest changes, preferably in drafts or user space sandbox examples.

Yoshida Keiji (talkcontribs)

The talk feature among editors was under maintenance for some time and it just happened to match the same timing you started massive edits. I was the one who spotted the malfunction when I attempted to send you some messages.

  • At first, I wanted to ask that you add the "Planning Grid" to spaceship screenshots so that the viewer can "easily" see how much space is needed. The white squares can help count how many tiles does the total length takes, which is very important, and now more than ever as we will need to defend it for a full season once activated. The design or simetry has no relevance, so as compact as possible shall be the focus.
  • Secondly are the guides. Normally, when we "do" have the talk feature available, we address some disagreements on time before edits spread too much, but as mentioned above, we couldn't talk to each other. I will be reverting to the previous version, just before you. The guide itself totally needs an update because the original writing was set during Alpha 16 and we are now on Beta 19, three builds afterwards. However, there is a disapproval in your approach, which is why I'm entitling this discussion as "Input perspective". The angle from which you viewed narration introduces the following problem. The reading suggests that the "game setting" had more prevalence over the "player" game skills. Giving very little merit to the gamer. I will proceed to show you some examples:
    • Location: Selecting landing zone "Cheeses" the game too much. Convenient to escape the Ice Sheet to other biomes and closer to other outposts. But that completely removes the merit of actually winning an Ice Sheet game. If we are making a guide of Ice Sheet, then we shall stick to that biome, otherwise it's NOT Ice Sheet.
    • Character selection: This is also a bad guidance, because literally anyone who is not disabled can cook. Telling that your butcher should be either Cannibal, Bloodlust or Psychopath reads almost mandatory and lame. Again it is a victory heavily relying on the "start settings" than "player merit" itself.

The "Dream Team": Also dilutes "player effort" considerably as there is no restriction or impossibility or specific traits to finish the game alive. A good game shall take all character variables until the end. Of course, sometimes (for those who don't save scum in particular) the enemy will just one-shot-kill one of your own pawns and oh well... people die. Sure, you can equip them as best as possible but nonetheless bad luck makes you lose someone. There is no immortality, except maybe for the resurrect serum, but the thing is that: there is no such thing as a particular trait not being able to cope with the challenge.


Basically, you have a problem in Input Perspective because the approach is limited or causes misunderstanding. There are several real life examples to this:

  • If you watched the TV series LOST, Jack tells his son: "-Opening a cereal box is not making breakfast.-"
  • If you are an outdoorsy like myself, you shall understand that going to the nature on a RV is not the "real" camping as of someone who goes with tent, sleeping bad and wood fire as opposed to having air conditioning, beds, kitchen and TV...that's not real outdoors.
  • If you like races, you can have two pilots of equal driving skills but you give one a F1 and the other a bicycle, you just can't say that the F1 driver was better. What made the difference was the vehicle, not the pilot skills.

Your guide contributions have input perspectives of the lucky F1 driver, which had absolutely no merit into winning the race.

Writing the wiki on secure and controlled scenarios misleads the reader into thinking that there is "only that way" (mandatory and restricted). What we need you to do, is to write "open mindedly" to welcome all possibilities. Your current Input perspective feels more in line with cheat guides, shortcut tips or exploit techniques. Because of this, your contributions shall remain as part of "User Guides" (I have my owns too by the way.).

Gottoni (talkcontribs)

I am not sure if a picture with "Planning Grid" would be the best way to show how big the space ship is. As of now I am not doing anything because I am sick of people removing my contributions instead of trying to understand it.

I think you need to be a bit clear about what is your point here.

  • You think that choosing a landing location is cheesy. I believe in the other hand that choosing landing location is mandatory is every map not only the hard ones. It is about making the whole gameplay experience better and not just surviving it, for instance landing on a ice sheet map without anything around but ice sheet and mountains is not bad because it is harder but because it prevents the player from experiencing the whole caravan and quest system which makes the whole gameplay experience much more limited. It is not just about survive until you get electricity but about making a huge, thriving colony.

If I was to write a guide on every single other biome I would still add advises every time about best places to land because of how important that is to enjoy the caravan system. The point is not to escape ice sheet, but to enable quests and trading.

  • Again you think choosing colonists is cheesy. Well, I think using the "Scenario Editor" and making everyone Cannibal is cheesy but not pressing the random button a few times. I tried to be as open as possible in my recommendations which is why I said "should be" and not "must be", also why I gave options instead of just saying make all Cannibals.
  • I am basing my guide on the most standard possible setup. No mods, no "Scenario Editor", standard world settings, no traits restrictions, no second colony. Why you believe making quests in biomes that are not ice sheet is cheesy is beyond my understanding.
  • Your guide is outdated and confusing. I am not trying to be offensive here but I tried to edit it first but there were so many thing to fix that I found it better to rewrite the whole thing. Should I talk about what is wrong with it?

1 - You tell people to pick a big ancient ruin near a steam geyser. What if I dont have one? Well I gave people other options.

2 - You say they should be able to finish electricity research in 2 seasons more or less. First it is more likely that it is gonna take a whole year, unless if you conveniently chose colonists with high Intellectual skill. Second that is what every wrong tribal guide writes about: "how to survive until electricity", what I wrote about and what you should write about is: "how to survive forever without electricity" since others will take more time and might prioritize other researches over electricity.

3 - You wrote yourself that "cold and starvation will not kill you, but mental breaks will" but I cant tell people to pick mentally resistant colonists? Isnt this supposed to be a guide to help people?

4 - You wrote in your own guide that you should send all your colonists to cryptosleep except your researchers, how is that not cheesy? I least I gave people other options: sell/kill some of them or send them on a raid mission. In my guide you can win tribal ice sheet without using cryptosleep at all.

5 - Caskets plus three formula? I spent so much time trying to figure out what you mean here. I think you mean you should have three colonists awake but I cant tell for sure. Do you know that colonists sleeping in cryptosleep still add to your colony wealth? So having unnecessary ones in sleep makes your defense a lot harder.

6 - Again you write "Your best cannibal chef will be either of the two pair who just got married and is in honeymoon phase.", so cant I just tell people to actually pick a proper chef from the start? While rely on a random wedding if I can get a proper one for sure in the very begging?

7 - You recommend people to rush electricity? Even before complex clothing?

8 - Research drug production and penoxycyline? On ice sheet where diseases are near non-existent?

9 - Extra content? Why you need to show people how cool your ice sheet base looks?

10 - Space ship? I guess I understand now why you dont even care about landing location. You think that winning in ice sheet is about building the space ship as soon as possible and get out of that place. Well, most people think that winning on any map is about making a huge colony that lasts forever and never bother making a ship.

11 - Attacking other Factions. Here you just prove why is it important to get a good landing location because if you actually landed in the write place you would be able to attack someone without drop pods, in addition of also being able to trade and do quests.

Now general problems.

12 - Unclear. I can see the following objects in your guide: Make a sauna, send people to cryptosleep, make cannibalism, research some technologies and make a plantation room. A standard internet reader is unintelligent and ignorant, he will read this and give up because he doesnt wanna read texts about how to do those things. You need to be much more objective than this.

13 - Bad pictures. You didnt remove the UI, you didnt focus on the part that matter, you made it all so small that I cant see anything on them and I dont see the point of many of them. Your best pictures are the one killing pets and the cannibalism freezer but I still dont see the point in them.

14 - Unnecessary advises. You dont need to tell people a lot of things because they are way too basic or pointless, like:

  • Pause the game immediately.
  • Analyze your team, set their priorities.
  • Always keep an eye on the polar beer food bar.
  • If your colonists complain about "sleeping in the cold", you tell them to man-up.
  • You MUST keep an "active" hauler outside to open and free the others.
  • Events that can help you survive.
  • You can also store prisoners from pirate bands whose recruitment chance is over 95%.
  • Immediately after opening all the cryptosleep caskets, pause the game and run a full check on each surviving occupants.
  • Check the spacers and see who could become a valuable member of your main team based on what you originally lack.
  • It is okay if your characters complain of hunger.
  • Since the biome has scarce fertile tiles, you can easily select to mark a Grow zone and just drag your cursor on a 50x50 tiles area so that the game automatically marks where there is a "large" concentration of farmable area.
  • Then use "Delete zones" to remove all growing zones that were created during the scan for farmable tiles, and use the "order" to "plan" to draw a cross of 11 tiles with tile number six (the crossing), being the location where the Sun lamp will be located.
  • Click the sun lamp and press "H" for the sun lamp itself to create a growing zone for you.
  • Of course each player will play different stories, so adjust to circumstances as needed.
  • From here on, it's all up to you. Good luck!
  • The whole "Extra content" and "Attacking other Factions" topic.

---

Summarizing, I cant fix your guide without remaking the whole thing. You however can fix mine if you feel something is inappropriate, example:

  • If you think that it sounds like your should always place your colony in a convenient location then change it to make it to make sounds like an advise and not a restriction.
  • If you think that it sounds like your butcher must always be either Cannibal, Bloodlust or Psychopath, then change it to make sound like an advise and not a restriction.

This guide is more than about rushing electricity and the space ship. It about making a huge fancy colony. In the long run placing your colony in a bad spot will generate frustration.

You recommend to get a married chef, how if that different from getting a chef in the character selection that is married with another colonist?

You argument that ice sheet near tundra is NOT ice sheet is just too weak for me. We are not writing a guide about surviving in the hardest and coldest ice sheet possible. You dont have to random the world, random the landing site and random the colonist to have "merit" on winning in ice sheet. Again, making quests and raiding bases on tundra doesnt make it less worthy.

If that makes you happy I will remove the traits suggestion since the rest of the guide still holds true with other kinds of colonists, but this is a guide and we are suppose to help people, which also means helping them to select colonists.

And if you insist, I will move the content from the landing suggestion part to a separated page but I will not just remove it because it is way too important to improve the gameplay experience, and not just for ice sheet, but for every single biome.

If you want a better real life example:

We have two marathon medalists here, one won a normal marathon and the other won a wheelchair marathon. Now you telling me that the normal guy is unworthy of his medal because it was much harder for the wheelchair guy to became an athlete? The fact that the normal guy didnt cheat and won doesnt matter because he didnt suffer enough?

Seriously, why keeping everyone in cryptosleep is not cheesy, but sending them out to get food is? Using the caravan system is cheesy and lame? Thats why my guide is cheesy and yours not? You wanna "open mindedly" welcome all possibilities, except caravans? The guide doesnt change anyway if you decide to land in the middle of the north pole it just gonna make you suffer more while doing your quests.

I bet you find my extreme desert guide also super lame because I tell people how to choose a landing location with more resources available. Speaking of which, you wrote "your only chances for survival will be opening an ancient shrine and hope there is at least one hive that has a spelopede or megaspider to hunt" and you wanna tell me what my guide is the one that is limited and misleading? I bet that restarting the map until you get an ancient shrine with a hive is not cheesy for you since you not using the caravan system. But sure I am the one writing cheat guides.

There are no older topics