Mortar pages

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Very well. My argument is a matter of grammar. The way the original line was written had the first phrase stating that the mortar would, paraphrased: "fire on enemies within its 500-tile radius, but it will not fire once the enemies have reached within 30 tiles, or can be manually set a forced target." This is misleading, because you could interpret this to mean that the mortar could fire at enemies within 30 tiles if you set it to fire manually, because of where the word 'or' is placed in the sentence. That's why I moved the third phrase to follow the first, because then you have it saying that it will fire at enemies within 500 tiles or you can give it a manual target, but it can't shoot at anything within 30 tiles at all.

Drafted colonists do not automatically return to work after a battle is over. They remain drafted until the player un-drafts them and returns them to work. At least, that's how it's always worked in every single version of RimWorld I've ever played, and that includes A17 (current). When did colonists start auto-undrafting themselves? Are you using a mod for this, or some function I'm not aware of? If there's a way to make colonists auto-undraft, it should be noted in the Drafting page appropriately.

The reason I used 'more' is because I ran out of space to type the rest of the changes I had done in that edit in the Summary section.

The reason I included the information about how to store ammo for the mortars is because the mortars require ammo to function. If I were to list every single use of Steel on its page just because there's a use for it, that really would wind up cluttering the site unnecessarily. But you cannot have the mortar without the shell, and since players who build mortars are immediately going to be thinking of ways to build mortar installations, the note I made about how to stack ammo for them without it exploding is still very relevant. And if it's perfectly relevant, is it really so bad if it's repeated on one other page? I'm not trying to go through the whole process of saying what you need to build the shelves and then the shells; that's reduction to absurdity.

Setokaiva (talk)07:17, 23 September 2017

As I see you already editing content that is currently in dispute. First off you need to know that pages are edited with consensus, and while a discussion is taking place, you should refrain from editing said articles.

The misleading perception is mostly a misunderstanding from your side. Siege weapons do NOT work on "Touch range" so that leaves aside any awkward reading that it was said to mean that the shooting range can be altered for shorter than 30 tiles.

I play Vanilla and I see Colonists undrafting without my interaction.

Basically in wikis, every single article that is connected to the main topic can be linked in the first appearance of a word within a paragraph, so in this case. If we already have "Mortar shells" linked in the main paragraph, those who would like to know more will be redirected there.

Also reply to discussion on a same page by adding an extra colons (:) or by simply clicking on "reply".

07:36, 23 September 2017

Ah, so that's why my edits kept getting taken down. Alright, my apologies, I wasn't aware I was supposed to go through channels before I made any edits to the wiki articles. I thought I was supposed to just come in and fix it up as I saw fit; that's what I was invited to do, really. PigeonGuru didn't say to talk to anyone else first. I'll try to be more considerate about that from now on.

First off, I wasn't talking about touch range, so I don't know where you're coming up with that from. I was referring to the misleading way 'or can be manually set a target' was used in that sentence, which could be interpreted as 'the mortar can fire at hostiles within 30 tiles if you give it a forced target'. Besides, 30 tiles is not touch range. Nowhere on any of the three Mortar pages is the phrase "Touch range" used. In fact, they are all shown to have a touch accuracy rating of 79% in the data, despite the 30-tile minimum range. Maybe that should be deleted or marked "N/A" due to redundancy?

Well, I play with mods, but I have no mods to cause colonists to undraft themselves after battle. If you are seeing this in vanilla, like I said, you may want to make a note of it in the Drafting page accordingly.

On replying to same page: I did exactly that, and was told by PigeonGuru "It's better if you directly approached the user of you directly used his talkpage instead, if you need to address the issues created. It's more specific and addresses the issue more directly." But when I did so, you moved the discussion to my talkpage instead, and here we are.

Setokaiva (talk)07:50, 23 September 2017

There are a lot of things that are unclear, and that is not your fault, so technically there's no need for you to apologize to anyone here, not even me. This wiki started in 2013 ~ 2014, not sure now. But being a Wiki that is "live" for 3 years or long, it should have Formatting Guidelines and Policies so that new comers can find their way around without remarks from other users. But somehow for whatever unknown reason, there aren't any yet... Most of the active users who have easy going interactions with others clearly show that they have learnt their Wiki-Fu elsewhere (such as myself), so we don't need to go through the basics. And we have all been there where you are now. One of the life phrases that I like the most say: "The difference between veterans and new people, is that the veterans had made more mistakes".

There is a user behavior known as "RC patrol" which means Recent Changes, constant checking. Any user who clicks that link daily can see all the edits that are being performed. Depending on the changes themselves, normal or minor, etc. Most of the time, there is no requirement for anyone to talk to others first. Yes, you can edit without asking "permissions". The thing is, that users leave "Edit summaries" so that if its between you and me. Every time I edit after you, you can know what was the reason that I edited after you. For the past days, I was leaving you summaries, which looks like you read them but were not understanding maybe? So discussions are featured in wikis for when a same article has this back and forth. Some times you can just open a discussion in the very first disagreement which is more polite to other users. Basically what brought the attention was repeated remarks.

Touch range, was a phrase I brought in to say that obviously, you are not going to shoot less than 30 tiles with an 11 miss-radius, as you risk bombing yourself, not literally in this game, but real life military practice often suffers accidents where the missile misfired to the foot.

Now, we just need to chill. Its absurd to fight other people through the internet with pixels. Let other people step in, and in 3 days or so, we agree on the final outcome of those pages. Consensus is not the same as win based on majority...there should be an explanation here somewhere about that. But basically, because its clear that you are a new comer, there is no need to address R3 or R1 policies. Three revert rule or just one revert rule, exist in every wiki, its just not written here yet I think,...but...If you find yourself reverting or undoing on a same page at least once, its best if you take the dispute to the talk page. Users who repeatedly revert or undo, are classified as "Revert-Warriors", which of course is a negative label. I know that is NOT you, just letting you know. I myself, just like Pigeon Guru, we see a lot of potential in you and there is no intent in scaring you away. We just need a set of parameters (written), that currently is missing...

08:26, 23 September 2017

I appreciate the sentiment a lot. I just couldn't understand why you were undoing my revisions on things I felt were pretty clear-cut. But I don't want to be the guy who thinks his way is always right; I've actually agreed with a lot of the revisions done to my edits, because I felt they made more sense and felt more concise. I just haven't said it out loud yet. As for summaries, I actually was reading them; one of the summaries about my first edit to a mortar page led me to believe my edits were reverted simply because I didn't edit all 3 pages at once, so I did edit all 3 later, but it confused me when those edits were also taken down. But I'm very willing to let consensus do its work so there's no (more) confusion on this, because I don't like to start drama. Thank you again for reaching out to me.

And I still want to press on one thing: If you are seeing colonists auto-undraft themselves, which is something I personally have never seen both in vanilla and in modded RimWorld A17, you really should make a note of this on the Drafting page. Are you using the Steam version, perhaps, to get this feature? Because I'm using the original download. I'm not sure if maybe I missed something or didn't turn a certain feature on, but for me, colonists never auto-undraft themselves. I've always done it manually.

Setokaiva (talk)16:43, 23 September 2017

These are some links to Wikipedia, the rules there don't apply here strictly said but the principles are still used here:

Wikipedia:Edit Warring & Three revert rule


Wikipedia:Policies and guidelines

Any questions you may have in the future should be addressed in the Community Portal, it's very likely that the answers will still come up from the same people (there's only a handful of us active users) but (at least since I started editing in are the first in asking) basic editing questions are better placed in an easy access page where everybody would naturally check for info instead of a user's talk page. I don't mind giving you the heads up.

Q: What is a revert? A: A Revert is when a text that was removed, had been re-added or when a same text has be re-removed twice or the same last two users. While it can happen between different users, the two with opposite views need to address it in the talk page.

So, basically, if you re-add a text that somebody else has removed after your edit, you are "reverting" and before doing so it's best to take it to the talk page.

Q: What's an Undo? A: Undo is mostly used when many elements in a same page need to be reverted simultaneously, or simply a reincidenting revert keeps reappearing (constant same remarks), Undo just saves us a lot of time that could be better used doing other things.

The auto-undraft was already edited by PG and yes, my game was downloaded from Stream.

23:24, 23 September 2017