User talk:Zesty

Previous discussion was archived at User talk:Zesty/Archive 1 on 2018-09-05.

First a question: Do you know what's up with MediaWiki:Common.css? Are you able to access it? I get a time-out and ominous error message.

Fatal error: Maximum execution time of 60 seconds exceeded in /home/rimworldwiki/public_html/includes/shell/Command.php on line 472

Secondly, I wonder about feedback to some thoughts or plans for the future. I posted about it in the Community Portal and the Forum. Basically a wall of silence so far :( Yes, it's summer, but I got all excited and hoped for feedback and interaction.

Some of this would involve quite some work, all really, and I am now reminded how tricky it actually is to make a CSS re-design. Awfully much is defined in various hidden default files, and it is based on a light skin, so just about everything breaks. Until I can figure out the tags, how to code them, and make the changes to CSS (in my userspace for now). Wouldn't have got anywhere without looking at and importing snippets from other wikis.

Anyway, I'd love some feedback about these ideas, and whether I should just abort it right away, or actually start plugging away at it.

(Hah, there it is again. Do you know if the spam check where we have to answer rimworld, boomrat, muffalo, etc will always persist? I get it rather often, which has become kinda grating).

Sometimes pages aren't friendly to load, but you can get around it with URL editing. I think it has something to do with page length.

https://rimworldwiki.com/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Common.css&action=edit

Using https://rimworldwiki.com/index.php?title=PAGENAMEHERE&action=edit and replacing PAGENAMEHERE should get you to any page that doesn't want to let itself be 'viewable'. I think it's an issue that cropped up when the wiki was converted to use https instead of plain http.

In regards to switching to Cargo, how much overhead do you think there would be in converting pages using SMW to Cargo? From what I'm reading online, they could run side-by-side, but I'd rather have one running than two. Some use cases can be seen on pages like Lumber and Template:List

Looks like the common page got out of hand after a 50,000 byte edit by one user, adding a bunch of support for 'Glyphicons'. I'm currently checking if we actually need this huge section of code. I'm not sure what it's referring to.

Scratch, see following reply.

Upon further digging, the skin that the wiki uses is https://rimworldwiki.com/wiki/MediaWiki:Vector.css and I'm not totally positive why the Common.css page is behaving so odd. Even with a blanked page, it doesn't want to render.

Using your trick above I managed to load it, maybe because you removed some of the fluff. Just now it loaded when I looked at the AllPages special page too, so maybe it's okay now?

Quite a lot of weird stuff in there though. Crikey. Good thing you got rid of a lot of it. Can't imagine it's very useful. Maybe something that was put in ages ago?

As for Cargo.. It wouldn't be a swift process. Templates would need rewriting, queries re-written, and infoboxes rewritten. Oh, and most pages that use the templates. Much of that can be automated, but not the template rewriting. However, there shouln't be much overhead in terms of page loading, at least if the previous experience is anything to go by. It's best to have both running concurrently, until it's safe to remove all the SMW. Long-term I think it would be a good move, and it would be easier to get an overview of the data and manage it. But getting there is the issue. Not doing a good salesman job here now! :D

To get an idea of what it might look like, here is one of the tables on the Pillars of Eternity wiki, which I worked on previously: Bestiary table (scroll down past the definitions). And here is what is called a Drilldown: Bestiary Drilldown. Looks like the skin is borked, so hard to read, but it's essentially a filtering mechanism. Personally I prefer the tables more though. And you can export the whole thing to Excel for instance (possible in SMW too, but harder to carry out).

It's easier to get a solid overview of similar type of data when one can view it in a traditional table, instead of trying to get to grips with the various properties in SMW.

Oh, and as for those pages you linked: They look pretty complex, with nested templates again, so it's probably not easy to recreate that perfectly - in case that is desired. But one can do so in Cargo as well, by using essentially the same technique of having a template deal with the output of data, instead of one of the automatic processes.

However, if we are to try to get more unified templates here anyway, and maybe deal with the overly complex (and slow!) Define etc template chains, it could make sense to do these things simultaneously.

Sort of independent of all this, do you know if the current templates are using the structure from the game's XML files, and if the data is mostly updated?

If we are to do this, we could make sure the templates (and pages) use the same structure to make them easier to maintain -- within reason. Perhaps the XML files have way more data than we need.

In any case, there is some background info here: Gamepedia policy thingy. I was active over there at the time, and it was quite amazing the amount of issues SMW caused for them. The entire network, meaning every single wiki, could go down for hours on end because one of the larger wikis carried out maintenance on the SMW database. Which eventually led them to effectively banning SMW.

And here is a brief migration guide that is useful to refer to: SMW migration guide.

Since I've done this once before, I can do a lot, but it would of course be excellent with some help as well, as it's not a small task. And I hope to be able to use much of the code I wrote for Pillars. Templates and infoboxes can probably largely be re-used.

You both seem pretty confident and up to the task. I checked the thread linked to the Ludeon forums, and the reception seems pretty positive to the new design possibility.

I'll install Cargo along side Semantic MW. Hopefully we can transition to where we don't need SMW, but they seem like they can run alongside each other for now. Apologies while I brick the wiki a few times during installation.

The install for Cargo is partially complete. I'll take a look at the CSS issue a little later.

I'm just waiting for some assistance from Tynan to run a script that Cargo needs before it's up and running. I'll let you all know as soon as it's ready to use.

Thanks, that's excellent :) You may want to use the latest version though. I looked at the special page, and looks like v 2.0 is installed.

I think we're on a slightly order version of MediaWiki. I'll look into updating it all when I have some extra time this week, hopefully.

Please check if Cargo is working in the meanwhile. I think Tynan has set up the databases it requires, but I'm not 100% sure. Let me know if it's not working yet.

Good to be up and running again :) Admittedly I've not set up extensions myself, so not sure how much there is to consider. However, from the extension page they have listed Mediawiki 1.23 as the requirement, and we have 1.31 here, so I would think that should be okay?

No big deal though. It can be done in time. I'll set up a template and see if it works. Probably won't be able to actually create a table, IIRC that requires admin privileges, but the rest will hopefully work. Will let you know if something looks wrong.

I crudely copied in a template and some data. Was told the table isn't created yet, which is normal (now). Then went to the Cargo tables special page, and was met with an error message of the not-very-clear type :D

[XSvgkay9M1XcXnXTt9GyHAAAADM] 2019-07-15 02:10:25: Fatal exception of type "Wikimedia\Rdbms\DBQueryError"

Think it is possible to change some setting so that error messages make more sense. If that hasn't been set yet, maybe it will help. That said, I remember seeing such error messages before, though I have no idea what it means.

Found this under common problems:

   If you see an error message that looks like "A database query error has occurred. This may indicate a bug in the software.", you should add the following to LocalSettings.php, so that the page displays a more helpful error message:

$wgShowSQLErrors = true;

   Similarly, if you see an error message like "Fatal exception of type MWException", add the following to LocalSettings.php for a more helpful error message:

$wgShowExceptionDetails = true;

The wiki got stuck during the required update.php run to set up the 2 DBs that Cargo requires to run. I think that's what's causing that error.

However, I'm a bit stuck. Tynan said he tried running update.php, but it asked for an updated version of Composer. He tried updating that, but update.php is still asking for an updated version of Composer. Along the way, the wiki was accidentally bricked for a bit (hence the downtime).

I'll admit that I don't have tons of spare time to figure this stuff out, but I'm trying my best. It's a bit tricky however, since I've only got FTP access to the wiki at the moment (no terminal). Any suggestions would be appreciated, I'm not the most experienced with these plugins.

Unfortunately I don't have experience with doing this directly, as we never had access to that on Gamepedia (the staff there do it, for security reasons). However, the main developer Yaron Koren is very active on the extension talk page, so you can try to ask him directly there. I won't be able to help with this Composer issue and such anyway :-/ I recently asked him something there, and he replied quickly. There are some other very knowledgeable people too, who may also be able to help out with installation and setup questions.

Hi. Were you able to try some more on this? I posted about it here, but ofc I'm just an intermediary, so if something is incorrect, please add to the topic. Would be nice to get this sorted out.

Also, do you know if it would be possible to give me the rights to create and recreate tables? It would make things easier, as from experience this needs to be done rather frequently when testing out templates.

Oh and would it be possible to avoid the incessant "what is the name of the game this wiki is about?" questions and suchlike? Pretty please. It's starting to drive me up the wall =) After well over 1000 edits I should think it's fairly clear I'm not a spambot.

Can you please install the Page Forms extension? It has a very useful #arraymap function that is good for converting various output. As you can see from the test page here, it looks a little wonky without it. That is supposed to become a list (ul). It is useful for quite a few other things too, but I've only used it for #arraymap previously. It works with both SMW and Cargo btw, but I've never ventured into the actual Forms part of it. Seemed easier to just deal with wikitext, oddly enough.

Data like in the test page is stored in Cargo with a separator (e.g. ";" or ","). #arraymap is then used to turn those separators into an unordered list (or anything really). Easier than having to deal with regex or something heavy like that.

Well I definitely appreciate you guys taking the time to try to improve the wiki.

Being honest, I'm just not very knowledgeable about how to run a wiki technically. I'm not actually spending time editing it so I don't know the user needs, nor do I really know what Cargo or SWM even are. Call it rational ignorance - I'm trying to focus my time on game development stuff.

If there's anything I can do to help you, though, let me know. We've also got a web dev who goes back years called Hypolite (aka Ben Lorteau) who I'm happy to contract to help you guys out with this. He can work whatever command line magic is required.

I also agree that the spam protection should probably go away after enough time. Anything that makes editing annoying for no reason we want to reduce.

Anyway, basically just let me know what you'd like me to do. I can't help manage this process or make technical decisions about it but I'll definitely help execute. You both know my email.

That is a wise decision. We are definitely glad you focus on the game :)

From my point of view, what I would like to see happen is installation of the:

• Cargo 2.2 extension
• Page Forms 4.5.1 extension (read more about this one, and it could potentially be very useful for setting up the actual pages as well as the already mentioned #arraymap function)

I don't know the technical side and what would needs to be done to get them installed and set up correctly. However, if Cargo was tried to be installed via Composer, that actually isn't necessary, and from what I gather Cargo isn't (well) supported through Composer. So I would suggest to try to install Cargo the old-fashioned way. Maybe that requires access to command line? I'm not sure. All I can really do is read the installation help page.

Noticed this line, which may be important. With both Cargo and SMW, this needs to be set, so SMW still works properly:

$smwgEnabledCompatibilityMode = true;

Maybe that is already set, though, since SMW currently works on the wiki.

Have family visitors currently so won't be very active over the next few days. But if I can help in some way, just say the word and I will try.

Thinking about trying to set up a wiki locally just to see what it's like, but need to figure out what I would need first to set it up (I have a Linux system).

Otherwise, it would ofc be great if this command line wizard can help us out.

(And since I just got the question once again (probably due to external links), I would *really* appreciate not having to answer these darned security questions all the time)

Hi, apologies for taking some time to get back to you.

I've installed Page Forms, should be up and running as is. That compatibility like has already been set in the LocalSettings as well, it's just that Cargo's DBs need to be set up eventually (above mentioned Composer / update.php stuff).

I'll email Tynan, maybe Ben and his command line wizardry can get Cargo's DBs set up.

Hi, and sorry for the late reply. I've had a family visit for about a week. Thank you for installing Page Forms.

After some troubles here and there, I've installed mediawiki locally, and now also with the extensions we have here (give or take). Cargo 2.2 is installed and seems to be working, though I'm yet to create templates and such as the entire wiki empty. But I don't get any error messages when trying out the Cargo special pages, and I see cargo_tables and cargo_pages tables inside the main wiki database when I log on with phpmyadmin. The update.php script ran without errors, so I guess that worked out.

Not sure how this would be done without root access, mind you. What I did was to download the extension from github and then extract it in terminal (I have Linux Mint) with a tar command. Then put that under /extensions and rename the folder to Cargo. Insert the installation line in LocalSettings.php and then run the update.php script.

Don't know if this helps given we are on different setups (and I used MediaWiki 1.33), and I have root access since this is just a localhost wiki. Didn't use Composer either as I've never used it before and it looked to require quite a bit in the dependency department.

I'll try to export some pages from the RimWorld wiki and see if I can get something done locally instead. That way I don't have to worry about mucking up something, and won't have to struggle with captcha questions nor user right restrictions. Will try to rewrite some templates (if I can export->import and get it working decently enough) and fiddle about a bit.

Old moderation issue, resolved

I already told you before, Yoshida is motivated by vengeance and is not interested in what is best for the wiki but instead what is worst to me. He is not reasonable and me talking to him will do nothing.

There is very simple solution: tell him to not touch my writings and let some else do it. We have plenty or people here to evaluate things and only Yoshida creates problems out of contributions. For example, PigeonGuru has always edited and sometimes removed my stuff but he has done so moderately because he is actually neutral like he should be.

Yoshida talks about doing "restoration", even though there isnt anything to be restored. He is again trying to find an excuse to remove my content.

Thanks for getting in touch with me. Here's my view on some of your points:

• "Tell him not to touch my writings" is not a valid approach to a wiki. No one owns any writing on a wiki -- it's a collaborative effort. Check out https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Ownership_of_content

Another good example: take a look at the version history of the Health article. I wrote the first version, and people came and improved it. I don't own that writing, and I'm glad that people update it to make it more helpful and more accurate. Again, it's a collaborative effort.

• "Yoshida is motivated by vengeance"

You guys don't agree on some things. Blowing up arguments into saying it's 'vengeance' is just going overboard. The above article about ownership of content says that things should calmly be resolved.

My strong suggestion is to just focus on other articles for now, or create new ones that are needed (see Special:WantedPages).

If you have specific links or examples of issues, please provide them.

Further more, making snipes like the "Was decided that nothing will be done" on the previous topic's summary isn't appreciated.

It took a while to get feedback from both Yoshida and you on what the disagreement was, and I didn't want to take any action without hearing out both sides. Making snide comments doesn't help your case.

Quick edit: I also saw your user page comments about Yoshida, which I have removed. Don't make inappropriate comments about other people on the wiki, and be respectful. Consider this your last warning before temp bans will be handed out.

My user page is my user page. If we had a proper page for that https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents then it wouldnt be needed.

I am not saying I own anything, I am saying he is a disruptive moderator and will intentionally warm the contents I write, then I am saying let another moderator who is neutral and the fellow authors do the editing.

We did decided nothing but he think we concluded that all my content should be removed. He will do it and what are you gonna do about it?

Yes, your user page is yours.

No, you can't put inciting messages on it.

If issues come up in the future, we'll deal with it. Every version and revision is saved, and all changes are public. It's really time to move on from this.

Handled

Just a headsup, I had to remove some spam from an article.

Links to commits: https://rimworldwiki.com/index.php?title=Modding_Tutorials/Setting_up_a_solution&oldid=63507 https://rimworldwiki.com/index.php?title=Modding_Tutorials/Setting_up_a_solution&oldid=63504

Users involved: https://rimworldwiki.com/index.php?title=User:Bsam94 https://rimworldwiki.com/index.php?title=User:Jonescena

The above list is not exhaustive. There might be more.

Implemented

Hi again Zesty. Would it be possible enable the MsUpload extension? I've extracted all the images from the game, uncompressed this time, and would like to upload some images, overwriting some older versions (Battery.png for instance). But doing so one by one file would take forever. MsUpload is neat for such tasks, by clicking to edit a category, drag a bunch of files over the window, upload them, and then they automatically are categorised as well (but with annoying underscores instead of spaces).

The image categorisation was trickier than I thought, and looking at some old text files I found, I used HTML scraping with regex in the past, but it doesn't work correctly right now. Probably an issue with the regex, so I would need more testing. Just a small thing really, maybe nobody cares about it, but it would make it easier to find already uploaded images and use them in articles if it's possible to look at them via categories instead of trying to find them via various Special pages.

Some of the uncompressed images maybe shouldn't be used, such as the BGPlanet.png I just uploaded. The uncompressed version is 10 MB :D

I'll get to enabling the extension and adding that CC footer, hopefully by Monday (GMT-8). I'm shooting Ty a quick message about a technical question, but it should be pretty easy to enable.

Sorted

Hi. Recently I've communicated with User:PigeonGuru to try to understand a bit more about the template structure and suchlike here, which is a little tricky to wrap my head around (so many nested chains). I also wondered whether AutoWikiBrowser (AWB) has been used to mass-update pages? It's pretty useful. Previously I was a guardian on a Gamepedia wiki, and used it a lot there -- though it was perhaps best when creating new pages, with similar structure (like infoboxes), using input data from Excel/CSV. It can use RegEx, which makes it very powerful.

I have a more direct query, though. I've made a few additions to Help:Basics, and it is indeed quite basic. Therefore I wondered about copying content from either Wikipedia or Gamepedia's articles. However, an admin on Gamepedia raised the issues of the license on this wiki, which is sort of central to Share and Alike. I can't see any mention of a license here. Is there one, has it simply been forgotten? I'm also a little confused by mentions of Wikia, because I thought this was an independent wiki and not tied to one of the big hosters.

Perhaps people who edit here know all this stuff anyway, or go to Wikipedia for help. But it can't hurt to have it here too, and what I had in mind was for instance a help nav at the top, and then more detailed articles. Let's say a basic one (like now), one about images/gallery, one about tables, stuff like that. But leaning heavily on the already excellent articles from Wikipedia or Gamepedia, like a somewhat stripped down version of this. For that, however, this wiki probably needs the same/similar license, which happens to be ShareAlike 3.0 [1].

Would be grand if you could help us out here, as it would of course be easier to lean on the shoulders of others than to writing a new wheel :P

PS: If you could also give me an overview of how the templates all work together, that would be helpful. It's a bit daunting right now. I'm mainly thinking about Template:Infobox_main. Pangaea (talk) 02:05, 27 June 2019 (UTC)

Heyo, sorry for being slow to reply. I've just come off a work weekend.

I'm not that sure on the specifics of users using tools to mass-update the wiki. There was a user or two in the past that used some bots to update pages, but it's been some time since they've made edits.

As far as the licensing goes, I'm a little surprised it's not listed. I'd assuming Tynan's fine with the wiki being like most other wikis, Share and Alike (CC BY-SA 4.0).

As far as how the templates work, I'm afraid I'm not up to speed on them anymore - I use to be, some years back. We don't have tons of active power users here.

I'm always open to suggestion on how things should be updated to make maintaining the wiki easier, though it'll take a while if it's any plugin stuff.

Thank you for getting back to me. If Tynan is fine with using the normal wiki license, do you know how quickly it's possible to get that into the footer on the page? Do you have to check with him, or can it be done more or less right away? With that in place, we could borrow content from other wikis and adapt it here, which I think could be useful. I'm also thinking about a frontpage redesign, if that is agreeable, and with the licence in place I could borrow some regular setups instead of starting from scratch. Depending on how it's done, it might require some changes to the .js file (if going with a flexible approach similar to many Gamepedia wikis).

About mass-updating, I actually just got AutoWikiBrowser working this evening (had to install a Win7 VM), and managed to log in. Stuff would probably time out pretty quickly as a regular user, for instance if I tried to give a bunch of files a category, technically editing the pages. However, I could try a little test run to see if it works like I remember. It's a powerful tool with RegEx capability and various filtering and automation possibilities. Haven't worked on it for about 2 years, so need to catch up on it first.

Managed to extract all the game images now (or so I think, around 2000 pictures). Names are a little different, and most of the important ones are probably uploaded already. But one I did find, that apparently isn't on the wiki, is the background image from the game itself (the nice-looking planet). I wanted to test out having it as a semi-transparent background for the wiki. With the licence in place, I can try to test out stuff like this on my user page (with custom CSS).

Totally understandable you're not up to speed with the templates any more after a few years. It can get pretty complex, and that appears to be the case here. Hurts just trying to wrap my head around it :D Personally I find it easier to work with templates if each thing/category has a template, instead of one super-template that's supposed to cover everything (and with several nested helper templates). From what I can gather there are sort of two super-templates here: infobox/thing and infobox main. But I'm not sure how it all ties together, and how to go about trying to edit them, or tie new templates with them. Err, so maybe best to ignore all that for now. It's also possible that this nesting and frequent template calls gets expensive in terms of performance.

Sorry for the essay here. If you are able to get that license info into the footer it would be easier for both me and others to take other content and adapt it for this wiki. Maybe it was merely an oversight from years back, and nobody have thought about it since. It happens.

Okay, I've taken care of the following:

- Enabled MS Upload. I did a quick test upload, and it seems to be working properly.

- I've filled in the $wgRights section on the wiki settings. Looks like it was never set, but it should now be listed on the footer of all pages.

- Made a simple copyright page, available at RimWorld_Wiki:Copyrights. It's linked in the footer.

Let me know if there's any issues with the extension or the footer. I think it should be smooth sailing.

Thank you, Zesty. This is excellent news. Will make it all the much easier to add content to the wiki, that already exists in various forms elsewhere. There was a slight error on the copyrights link, but it's sorted now.

Tried to upload some images while editing a category, and although the upload info looked correct (with a checkbox next to the category), the images didn't get added to the category. Do you know why this is, and is it possible to fix it?

Would make it much easier to upload many images from the game files if they get automatically added to the appropriate category, without needing to fix that afterwards.

The multiple uploads part worked great, so it's just the automatic categorisation that doesn't take effect for some reason.

I checked the settings, and enabled one related to categories. It should've been enabled by default, but please check if it is working as intended now.

Thanks for the quick reply. I tried to upload another file while editing a category, but the category didn't get added to the file now either. Tried to search for the issue, but nothing useful turned up, and there isn't anything about it on the extension's talk page either.

Made a post on the extension's talk page. Hopefully there are eyes on it.

Don't know if this is relevant, but I noticed the version here is listed as 12.0 while the newest version over there is 13.1. Maybe more importantly (I honestly don't know), the commit thingy (0779791) appears to be linked to version 1.32 of MediaWiki judging from [1], while we have MediaWiki 1.31.0 over here. Could it be that this causes the issue?

I updated the extension to the latest version from the Gitlab repo just now. Any difference?

YES! :) Now the most recently uploaded image showed up in the category. Thanks for fixing it :)

Now I can get to organise it all locally first, and then upload. I'm thinking to upload the three version for most "things", and then put them in a small gallery or something on each page.

Hmm, a slight hick-up. Not sure if this is a settings or MsUpload issue, and I don't recall how this worked on other wikis because it's been a couple of years. When I upload files that already exist, and thus upload a new version instead, the categorisation doesn't work. The category code is added on the file version, but not the file itself -- if that makes sense. See for instance here, where I fixed it afterwards: File:Flak_jacket.png

Tempting to just upload the images as they are named from the game files, but I'm trying to be sensible and use spaces where appropriate. It also looks like there are several versions of the same file uploaded in places (default game file names, lowercase, without spaces), so I'm not sure what would be the best approach really. But with spaces they should usually be the same as the page/article titles. However, if I need to manually fix all the new version uploads, that might be a pain. Would be excellent if you can look into if there is a fix for this. Otherwise I can try to do something with AWB, but it's going to have to be a largely manual job, which takes more time.

Sorry to keep bugging you about this.

I'm not sure what else I can tweak with the plugin. The only two settings relevant to categories appear to be:

$wgMSU_showAutoCat = true; // Files uploaded while editing a category page will be added to that category

$wgMSU_checkAutoCat = true; // Whether the checkbox for adding a category to a page is checked by default

Both of these are set to true.

Had another look at possible settings, but the Manual is information overload and I don't have the experience to find the needle. Have updated the post in the talk page.

If there is a solution and they get back to us that would be great. But in the meantime I can try a workaround using AWB. There is a "New files" filter, which will hopefully work here, with some more manual filtering afterwards. Better than doing everything manually. And having this extension is a great help as there are many hundred files to upload.

Implemented

Could you please go to MediaWiki:Darkvector.css and enter the following code? For some reason this is listed on top of every page.

#jump-to-nav {
	display: none;
}

Okay, done.

Apologies, I've managed to break a rib IRL and am out of commission for some stuff lately. I've been following along with the email chain re: setting up Cargo and stuff.

I've added permissions to edit CSS to moderators, and, given your passion and constant feedback for the wiki, have promoted you to a moderator. Please let me know if there's any other permissions you need for editing/updating the wiki.

Ah. You'll have to bare with me for a bit, the user groups page is throwing an internal error when trying to set you to a moderator. Hopefully we can get that sorted

Ouch, that sounds awful. Unfortunately I know from experience that it gets worse until around day 7-10 before it starts getting less painful. Hope you get better soon, and that it's not so bad that it hurts to breath.

Thanks, that's great and will make editing easier. Unless it's part of the moderator group already, it would also be useful to have the cargorecreatedata right. Possibly cargodelete too, but recreate is most important. As I wrote in the email chain, every time something changes with the schema (cargo_declare), the table will most likely need to be recreated, otherwise the new data won't get stored. Have lost count of how many times I've had to do this already on my localhost setup.

Hope the other issues the wiki has currently can be sorted out.

I think that's all been sorted. Let me know if you need other permissions for Cargo work.

Copyright should be working now

Hi again. I'm trying to create some copyright templates. Do you (or anybody else reading this) know what is up with the #invoke stuff in templates such as Template:Copyright_CC-BY-SA_3.0? How do I fix that?

It appears to have been sorted now, after I replaced the Template:Ambox template. In general it looks like some more of these older general-use template could use some updating.

Off topic

I wanted to ask you multiple questions.First one is do you like spicy avocadoes? Or what about the hottest pepper in the entire universe? or what about if a demon eats you?

Closing topic.

I noticed a lot of users with admin powers are inactive. In the interest of account security (i.e. not letting inactive admin accounts get hijacked by malicious agents), I've stepped down the following accounts from their previous role to a regular user.

Stepped down the following users from the administrator/bureaucrat role:

• User:Semmy (inactive since 2016)
• User:Enystrom8734 (inactive since 2014)
• User:British (inactive since 2013)
• User:Pbgben (inactive since 2014)

Stepped down the following users from moderator:

• User:Pangaea (inactive)

If you are on this list and want your rights restored because you're going to be active again, please message me at your earliest convenience.

Spicy Hot!!!

Addressed.

Hey Zesty, I'm sorry about the spice message but I'm asking you if you can promote me to moderator(PigeonGuru can't help with it, of course). Can you leave a reply when I get promoted to Moderator? I'll see if you promote me tommorow? Great?

hello there Zesty?

Hi. I apologize for the delayed response. I'm not currently adding any additional moderators at this time - it's mostly a role for cleaning up spambots at worst.

can you promote me to admin and bureaucrat instead for a change?

No.

What can you promote me to then?

😡

I'm not currently looking for any additional admins/bureaucrats or moderators.

I get the impression that you're passionate about the game and its community, but you don't need to strive to have a special role to be recognized as a wiki contributor.

The admin/bureaucrat role is for maintenance. The moderator role is there to help users with questions, page deletions, spambots -- that sort of thing. Jimyoda and PigeonGuru already have the wiki well covered for moderation.