Topic on Talk:Sea Ice Guide

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Summary last edited by Yoshida Keiji 12:26, 21 January 2019 12:26, 21 January 2019

This articles needs to be analyzed by the Community to evaluate whether it deserves main space which equals approval from all members, versus user space only which clearly indicates it is the sole opinion of a particular user over a consensus based article as the former.

Yoshida Keiji (talkcontribs)
  • From a nomadic point of view: how many caravans were sent? Which was the total mileage? Looks like somebody following these "advices" could simply cross the entire globe from one pole to the opposite in the same effort. If you can cross the whole planet...why come back? On the other hand...
  • From a sedentary perspective: failed argument as it required constant escapes to other biomes, note proximity to tundra biome.

This reference is not exclusive to sea ice, and not one thing nor the other.

Sea Ice Guide should be reserved to Crash-landed/Rich Explorer only. Sure, anyone can wear a rain boot on the head, that doesn't mean you are doing it right.

16:05, 18 December 2018 (UTC)

Gottoni (talkcontribs)

In the first three years most of the time there is a person doing caravan while at least one person is at base protecting and researching. I would say 2 caravans per mouth.

It would not be profitable to go further down bellow ice sheet this often because it would be necessary to use pemmican instead of simple meals due to the temperature, which would cost more wood to cook and would weight more which would result in more travel time and lower loot. And you have to be lucky in the first place and have someone sell vegetables to you.

Most importantly, sea ice is too far from tundra for quests to appear there. There is no tundra in the closests 10 tiles around. In the 25 tiles around the base 70% is sea ice, 15% is ice sheet and 15% is tundra. It is not even worth mention it, I got only 1 quest in tundra 3 years of gameplay.

If you look at the pictures you will see the "escapes" are to sea ice and ice sheet quests locations usually with only a single snowhare to hunt and hopefully a raider to kill, which is still better than staying in the colony doing nothing.

Just because you can not figure out how to play Sea Ice with Tribals or Naked Brutality does not mean it is impossible. I would write about Naked Brutality too but it is actually easier than Tribals.

In Sea Ice there is literally nothing to do besides caravaning in the beginning. Picking Crash-Landed/Rich Explorer and sitting in a chair for years waiting for rice to grow will never allow you to create a colony.

In other words, you will trade and do quests endlessly in this biome no matter what start you pick.

AngusNHC (talkcontribs)

My point of view, if you consider challanging to survive at sea ice, then every thing told at this guide is fine. if your final goal is to escape the planet, this guide is not for you. also , please choose another nice & easy living landing place too.

The guide here is dependant to the friendly village adjacent. because the Lost Tribal run did not have any iron resource at the start and cannot start researching vital technology. if you start the game at the pole and no village adjacent, it is another story. both tribal & C.L......I've tried. you need plenty of time (in real life), precise & accurate base planning , and Luck(waiting for the meteorite & Ship parts).

Maybe you try Sea Ice Challange with no village adjacent, it is much more challanging to build a village with only material supply from Bulk goods trader & Later the Orbital traders , Salvaging & Recycling ....

There's some information is wrong.... i will advice once confirm.

BTW , really interested to the topic : Naked Brutality SEA ICE Challange. it is challanging to play Naked Brutality at Ice sheet, but how to survive with nothing at a place have nothing too.....?

Gottoni (talkcontribs)

Yes I make guides about building big prosperous colonies, not about escaping the planet. But it is implicit that you can build the ship once you reach “stable” status by the end of the guide. It is also about being pratical, 99% of players never build and do not care about the ship.

There is no way to make meaningful progress in this biome without a nearby faction base. That applies to all starts. If there was a challenging way I would write about it, but the only way is by sitting in base waiting steel to fall from skies, which is plain boring.

In Naked Brutality all you gotta do is summon Man In Black. He will provide you a gun, clothes, food and a slave. You can sell him and the vest for about 500 silver which you can use to buy materials to start your base. It is gonna be very slow with only one guy trading since materials are heavy, but eventually you will get a second colonist and the game becames just like Crash Landed. Tribal is harder since it takes much longer to research electricity and beyond than it takes to gather materials to build electrical things.

AngusNHC (talkcontribs)

Generally, i agree with you, but not the Naked Brutality point. In my opinion, the first person die, Game is over.

If you run your game like this, Why not use mod like prepared carefully or simply edit starting Scenario....

For the point Tribal vs C.Landed/Rich Expl. ,the different is just you need more time to research things. if you can managed to minimize the use of resource & wait for the vital technology complete, It's no big different with the other scenario (except spend more time in your real life)

I like play C.Landed with no village support. it's much more challanging in my view. if you can buy resource and sell things anytime, it's already lower the difficulty......

I enjoy to survive at extreme environment solely, so i always play at different extreme environment and try to stay alive. I didn't challenge your point of view, different player have their way to play this game. I don't agree some of your point. But i don't think your guide is "Astounding absurdity".....nice guide

Gottoni (talkcontribs)

pardon my language, I dont think you are challenging anything, I am just thinking about things that can be written in a guide or not

you can summon Man In Black and still keep the first colonist alive, you just gotta starve him a bit then bring him back up with the help of the MIB. I completely agree with you that you should not lose the first colonist. I am not saying it is legit or not, but it is the only way to survive in Naked Brutality sea ice.

Tribal overall I find it more interesting because forces you to do more extreme things due to the lack of technology. Like you can rush hydroponics in Crash Landed and never do cannibalism, slavery or organ harvesting, instead just eat rice and sell drugs, but Tribal you gotta do something else to survive for years untill hydroponics becames a option and the only thing that always shows up in extreme biomes are raiders so...

the thing about Crash Landed in sea ice. Lets put it like this, I find it interesting to live in a tiny base and have to manage very carefully your resources to survive, but eventually after some years... I wanna see things getting better, more space with more people. You could do that without a friendly faction base if you rush the Long Distance Mineral Scanner. But between the start of the game until the scanner you still stuck waiting for events that can help you. Sure that still legit gameplay and sure is hard as hell... It is just not good writing material because it is too dependent on random events

yes I created other guides for the other extreme biomes but unfortunately the Yoshida dude removed them, but he cant remove this one so he is trying to make it look bad. Dont mind him

Yoshida Keiji (talkcontribs)

Oh,... you mistake me greatly once again. But first off, I would see you stop with false accusations as I deleted nothing. Here is the proof Special:Log/delete of all content ever deleted in the wiki. And I can delete this page too if I so wanted.

But my true intent is to keep everything, and those who actually know me better already know that my inclination is to archive everything over deleting. The only reason I would delete something is if it were redundant. Duplicated content. Now, in all honesty: I can "read" both your guides saying exactly the same thing:

  • Land next to two outlander factions and trade like if the world were to end tomorrow.

I would advice to "Merge" both pages into one. The only reason I even chose NOT to do anything, is because my true intent is to actually give you space among us, as everybody deserves equally. If my transparency is NOT clear enough to you, I will write it very explicitly so you understand for once and for all:

  • I disagree your play style to be of worthy standard, but I have no "Personal" opinion against yourself as a human being. I may not like the ways you play this game. That doesn't mean I dislike who you are in the flesh, in real life. Who knows? Maybe we could just get along very well when faced next to each other.

There's a few others thing I could also talk about but that are not about Gottoni, but I want to keep this short.

Gottoni (talkcontribs)

Undoing everything someone else writes. Refusing to update a page that is years old and not allowing anyone else to do so. Pretending that someone else is violating your rights to prevent third parties from promoting changes. Creating negative discussions about someone elses work to downgrade his image.

Nah hommie, you fine. Everyone creates topics called "Astounding absurdity" to create friendly conversations, right?

Surely trading is an exploit, right? I am sorry if Tribal vanilla Cassandra merciless sea ice is not hardcore enough for you. But most people seems to think it is fine as it is. Like I already mentioned again and again, this is a guide and I wanna show people how to make progress in their games. Trading is a much more efficient way to overcame your lack of resources than waiting the RNG to help you. In Tribal sea ice it is also the only way so there is no discussion to be made.

Yoshida Keiji (talkcontribs)

You are new to wikis, we have all gone through the same basics at our starts, and your actions clearly expose the problems to those with more experience. There is nothing wrong about that. You would do well to find clear distinction between: "Perceptions" versus "Facts". For example:

You may not realize it yet, but try to see things in reverse. You think that anything that is not good by your standards should be deleted. If the whole wikipedias the exist to this day were to behave like that... All your edits would have been deleted by somebody else the moment you arrived, and as I mentioned it before. It's better to "archive" than "delete". Imagine what would have happened to you, if after reading your Ice Sheet guide, I have chosen to "delete" it all instead of preserving a copy which I created under your username. Would you have liked that? If deletion were to be the common practice...that means that you would have had to re-write everything all over again from memory. In that action of September 4th 20:19, I left you an example of traditional method. Facts over perception, nothing was undone.

It's best for you and all who read this to understand also the following. Complete removal of previous content is never acceptable. This, also is a standard methodology:

Which explains the "Why" it was unacceptable that you just took down the previous version. And as expressed earlier on, no fault or blame was placed upon you because the "Discussion" feature was under maintenance. Were to have been up and running, then certainly that would have risen a different reaction.

To give you more "Facts":

This is because I'm more seasoned contributor with large experience (Wiki-Fu) in other wikis and already knew the "Rules & Policies" by the time I arrived here.

To which you "Perceive" as: Refusing to update a page that is years old...[...]

There is a two years gap between User:Darkphoenyx27 and myself. Regardless of how old that page looked to me, I proceeded in what is an acceptable manner, as opposed to yourself.

Third point of consideration:

We have all witness your actions since arrival and I don't really want to go make a full list to weight it over your head but as a reminder: RC spamming and liberal/lightly usage of maintenance templates which are better employed by seasoned RC patrollers were all part of "Alarm triggers".

There already is enough supporting evidence of your lack of understanding regarding Wiki-procedures, and you keep stacking them up.

I can literally keep going on and on and on and on...over how many troubles you are presenting to us. But I do certainly believe there is Good Faith in your actions, which is why I haven't called for any kind of reprimend (which of course I do have access to).

However, the repeated and reiterated mistakes will grant a sanction. But again, so long as you don't do those mistakes again over and over, you can still walk free. There's always a lot to learn at the start and we veterans had all committed the same mistakes as yours somewhere along the past. We have all learnt to straighten our contributions, and I honestly hope you do so as well.

Gottoni (talkcontribs)

Removing from public and hiding into a userpage yes. You talk about wiki behaviour, but you rather undo all than fix the parts you disagree with. Surely the wiki would be amazing if everyone did that.

Updating content after new releases is not complete removal of previous content. Like you said:

Consensus can be achieved by:

Third opinions (3O)

The third party opinion was to combine the guides, which is not revert to previous version like you did.

You can make all the references you want to wiki rules but it is not gonna change the fact the you are preventing people from updating/creating content. Neither does it justify your questionable attitude of favoring "using your right to undo things" over letting others contribute in the wiki.

Why dont you ask the admin to ban one of the main authors of this wiki? Because you cant, you dont have a reason, you talking nonsense, stop spaming my page discussion.

"There is a fine line on Wikipedia between users offering critical analysis and advice on other users and their work, and people simply attacking other users and articles without warrant or cause."

This page is about Tribal sea ice, please if you got any problem that is not related to it you should refer to it in another page. You have been reported and if you keep spaming this page you will be punished.

Zesty (talkcontribs)

Topic re-opened for now. I'm trying to get some context for what's going on with the arguing here. I've sent you a message on your other topic Gottoni about adding me on Steam/Discord for your side of the story as well. All articles stay up for now and we'll sort this out.

AngusNHC (talkcontribs)

" I dont think you are challenging anything " ? Ah.... What a Stubborn dictator......Yes,yes,yes...... you are right. the other people are wrong.....

I have read your page long time ago and found you've write this down. Made me aware your editing attitude. i aviod conflict with you and making any troble.

"This user is willing to do a lot for this wiki, but his work creates jealousy among other authors so they follow him around undoing all he adds. . "

I don't think as a wiki editor , this attitude is right. But whatsoever, non of my business. Keep going kids. You will own this wiki soon when you've edit all the page. Over and out.

Gottoni (talkcontribs)

AngusNHC I answered your question as nice as possible. I wouldnt write an article about being isolated in Sea Ice because it would mean telling people to wait until some good RNG event happens to be able to proceed with the next steps.

You dont agree with it? If you want a Sea Ice guide for Crash Landed/Rich Explorer then open a discussion about it and lets start talking.

As I said, I closed this topic because Yoshida is using it to discredit the author instead of making positive contributions. If we are to actually have a discussion about Sea Ice then lets make it in another discussion without personal insults.

Aguilar (talkcontribs)

Sorry I re-opened this, I just wanted to say something.

I am very glad I finally found a decent Sea Ice guide. Everything I see in the internet is Rich Explorer guys telling you to stay in a super small room for ages. I am happy to see that someone can actually make progress in this map. I didnt even consider doing it with Lost Tribal until now, thanks.

@AngusNHC he is a dictator because he doesnt want to make the guide the way you want it to be? Did you actually tried to write something that got removed or you just here to throw anger at people? Jesus, this guy is so rude.

Ok, done.

Yoshida Keiji (talkcontribs)

As of January 20th, the main discussion is talking place in Talk:Colony Building Guide, and that is the only place all related comments should be instead of spreading the current argument in all directions. We are going to contain the problem rather expanding it.

As from this reply onward, all topics will "remain active". This means that if Gottoni "twists" Wiki-procedures and keeps incorrectly "marking as resolved" discussion that are still taking place, Gottoni will be getting a temporal ban that will be progressive as he keeps breaking rules and miss using wiki-features. You are NOT closing topics when it's convenient to you only. Topics get "officially closed" when a final resolution has been formed. And the summary will be written by a moderator, not by Gottoni.

Do it again, and I will ban you. Now I will proceed to write another reply in the Colony talk page.

Aguilar (talkcontribs)

No he didnt close it because it was convenient. Like Zesty, he closed it because talking to you is unproductive.